A Place Called David

Thus, I was more than willing to dive into the book and find out more. I would not call myself an expert in the event, even after reading the book, but I do know more than I did before. Moreover, being told from the perspective of a survivor of the event gives readers a very different insight into what happen. Without a doubt, this was an interesting read. Anyone interested in American history should give this book a read, and then go on to watch the mini-series that is being created, to get a better understanding of the event.

Apr 08, Rebecca McNutt rated it liked it Shelves: Interesting book on the Waco Siege, but it really only gives the opinion of one man, so it's difficult to see how the event affected everyone involved. I began listening to this on my way to a Ligonier dinner for ministry partners in Dallas. Kara and I had just taken a Waco tour the previous weekend May 19, We are leaving Waco at the end of July, and since I did not read up on this Waco event before we moved here, I thought I'd look into it before we left.

The Mount Carmel Center is not in Waco. It's about a minute drive east I began listening to this on my way to a Ligonier dinner for ministry partners in Dallas. It's about a minute drive east of Baylor. The initial raid on Feb. The siege lasted 51 days and ended on April 19 with the fiery deaths of more than 70 people, including 18 children age 10 or younger. I took our three girls to visit on June 6, Cyrus is called "messiah" in Isaiah David thought of himself as a second Melchizedek 2, years after Christ; first Melchizedek was 2, years before Christ David's teaching included lots of "study sessions" of misinterpreting Revelation the seven seals had particular significance [48—49].

The beginning of the book includes almost too much of the author's backstory, but it does provide rationale for his decision to join the Branch Davidians. Toward the end of Chapter 2, he writes, "Looking back, I ask myself a tough question that never quite occurred to me with any clarity during the early days of my connection with David, perhaps because I was so young and so unconscious: How could someone like me, who'd shown little previous interest in belief or Scripture, who had almost no religious background, later become so entranced by the Bible?

He first touched me as a fellow musician and a warm friend, and I was taken by his deep sincerity and natural authority. I soon realized that he was an extraordinary personality, but his unique interpretation of the Old and New Testaments only gradually came to fascinate me, when the music and the man had already opened my mind and heart" Reminds me of the first sentence of Milton's First Prolusion.

He was not charismatic in the manner of a Jim Jones or some television preachers. Neither was he formal or dignified, like a robed priest or a rabbi in his prayer shawl. In fact, his whole style was a kind of debunking of such expectations. He spoke fluently but he was never preachy, which for me would've been an instant turnoff. The actions of the ATF were condemned by other professionals, and some people involved were suspended or fired. Colonel Charlie Beckwith "damned the assault on several counts" and "criticized the agency for its failure to consider the risk to human life on both sides; for the lack of a contingency fallback when the ATF discovered it had lost the element of surprise; for the time chosen for the attack—after 9: Despite the fact that more than thirty women and children were crowded into the narrow concrete chamber at the base of the residential tower, the tank crashed into the ceiling, shoving chunks of broken concrete onto the people bundled below.

Six women and kids were immediately crushed by falling blocks; the rest were suffocated by the dust and gas vapors as the tank injected massive doses of CS directly into their windowless, unventilated shelter. The charred corpse of [one six-year-old girl] was found with her spine bent into a backward bow until her head almost touched her feet.

Her muscles were contracted by the combined effect of the fire's heat and the cyanide in her body, a byproduct of CS suffocation. Cyanide contraction is so violent it can [] break bones, which is why prison death-chamber officials who use the gas strap their victims down" — According to the coroner, "David [Koresh] died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head" , but the author writes that "the mass-suicide line was a crock.

If any of the people who died shot themselves or their children, it was a desperate response to finding themselves trapped in the gas-filled, crumbling, burning building. Crow, the Tarrant County coroner, concluded, these would surely have been acts of compassion, not religious mania" While David Koresh was involved in some very deviant behavior including polygamy and statutory rape, and unsubstantiated claims of weapons stockpiling and child abuse , it's not clear that the religious actions of the community warranted a brutal military assault by the FBI and ATF.

The author credits the Texas Rangers with being much more fair-minded in their attempt to get at the truth []. I did not begin reading this book with this opinion, but my knowledge of the situation was admittedly sketchy. In early , a six-episode miniseries appeared. Other media include In the Line of Duty movie with factual errors that valorizes the officers that died on Feb.

Short History Channel video here. Megyn Kelly talks with Thibodeau in See more media here. Ruby Ridge occurred in , and both it and the Waco siege motivated Timothy McVeigh in his bombing in , which occurred on the two-year anniversary of the explosion at Mt. He provides chronologically clumsy timelines of the Siege, bouncing back and forth between what Washington ordered vs. Jan 15, Jessi rated it it was ok.

I was hoping for more of a retelling through the authors first hand experiences, but what I got was a dense read that bounced back and forth. It included way more testimonials and quotes than I thought necessary and I felt like he was trying to convince me as the reader that he did no wrong or maybe he was still convincing himself that what he did and the choices he made were right. There were seve I was hoping for more of a retelling through the authors first hand experiences, but what I got was a dense read that bounced back and forth.

There were several times I found my mind wondering and not caring about what I read and honestly I wanted to DNF it, but I always feel so guilty. I think what if something happens that I want to know about or if a turning point occurs and I end up loving it. I did however appreciate the passion behind the book and learning more about the tragic event that took place. Jun 27, Kelsey Hanson rated it it was ok Shelves: I have read numerous memoirs of cult survivors, but I have never had such a negative reaction to an author.

By the time I finshed this novel, I wanted to slap Thibodeau I had to constantly remind myself that he is a cult victim and has gone through extensive conditioning and was probably never properly deprogrammed. Even though to a certain extent it is probably the lingering effects of his time in Waco, in his book Thibodeau comes across as shockingly ignorant at best and complic I have read numerous memoirs of cult survivors, but I have never had such a negative reaction to an author.

Even though to a certain extent it is probably the lingering effects of his time in Waco, in his book Thibodeau comes across as shockingly ignorant at best and complicit and enabling at worst. I might be able to muster up sympathy for him at the end of the day because he has been through a horrific ideal, but this book is incredibly misguided.

My biggest frustration with this book, and by extension the author, is Thibodeau's continued admiration of David Koresh.

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Despite admitting the fact that Koresh committed statuatory rape, Thibodeau continues to praise Koresh as a great spiritual leader. To me, going to a child molestor to explain spiritual enlightenment is not unlike going to a murderer and asking them to explain the value of human life. Thibodeau consistently insists that Mount Carmel was a religious community and not a cult but his ignorant defense of Koresh only convinces me that yes, he was in fact a member of a cult. One of the most infuriating aspects of this book is Thibodeau's incredibly narrow definition of child abuse.

Judging by what he wrote in this book, Thibodeau only views physical hitting or striking as child abuse. He readily admits that Koresh had sex with underage children all while rather stupidly insisting that all of the abuse allegations were unfounded. Statutory rape IS child abuse, a particularly cruel and heinous form of child abuse. Minors are not capable of consent. Therefore, any sexual contact with a minor is considered rape even if they were "married" or appeared to consent.

To be fair, he does mention that Koresh's child brides made him uncomfortable, but he never outright condemns Koresh for the abuse. In fact, he seems more upset over the fact that Koresh's abuse caught the attention of law enforcement than the fact that Koresh severely harmed the cult's most vulnerable victims, the children he claims to care so much about.

He continues to insist that the governments child abuse claims were "unfounded" but this is clearly inaccurate by his own admission! In addition to heaping an unreasonable amount of praise on a clearly questionable leader, Thibodeau consistently dismisses the accusations of numerous women and children, including a fourteen year old girl who testifies against Koresh. His rather feeble response is always along the lines of "I never saw him do that. I know him he wouldn't do that.

I'm not sure if he was aware of it, but numerous children, including Koresh's own biological children have since come forward and claimed that physical and sexual abuse was common place and the adults of Mount Carmel were aware of it if not willing participants. In interviews since, Kiri Jewell claimed that her own mother took her to a motel to have sex with Koresh. Sky Okimoto, Koresh's son, claimed that his mother hit him with the Helper paddle until he bled.

The same paddle that Thibodeau insists was only used for "light spankings to discipline the children". According to these same children, they were also subject to emotional abuse in the form of intense marathon Bible sessions that included terrifying descriptions of armageddon, being trained from a young age to fight and be prepared to die for or have sex with Koresh, a constant paranoia of the outside world, no real education, and being forced to live in horrific living conditions.

I first suspected that I was not going to like this book, when Thibodeau described an underground bus as a tornado shelter without any sort awareness that this not a safe place to take shelter. At first I thought that maybe, his statements were the results of the book originally being published so quickly after the initial events of the siege it was originally published in , a mere six years after the events at Waco.

However, the version that I read was re-released before the Waco mini series based on the events was released. The series was based on this book and incidentally critically panned largely because it was found to be sympathetic to Koresh and Thibodeau provided an additional epilogue that was painfully tone deaf. Thibodeau assures the surviving children of Waco that he will always be there for them and that they were loved.

These are the same children that he discredited in the previous chapter. The same children who were abused by his beloved spiritual mentor. The fact that he doesn't seem to grasp this disconnect just proves to me that he was completely conditioned and needs to seek help. In addition to his problematic views on child abuse, Thibodeau offers a pretty weak explanation for other highly suspicious activities that took place on the compound.

He insists that the majority of the firearms on the compound were sold to provide funds for the community. Not to mention the monumental risk of having that many firearms around children? Like other claims Thibodeau makes in the book, this claim has been more or less disproved. In , a former UPS delivery man revealed that he went to the Waco sheriff after accidentally discovering that a package that he was going to deliver to the compound was filled with hand grenades In the US, it has been illegal for civilians to own hand grenades since He also discovered that he unknowingly delivered grenade launchers, AKs, ARs, and magazines.

If this is true, the ATF would have been within their jurisdiction to inspect the compound, despite the fact that Thibodeau insists that they overstepped their authority. Besides the weak explanation of the guns, Thibodeau does not seem to find Koresh's "no has sex but me and I can pick whoever I want regardless of their age or marital status" rule unreasonable or suspicious. He spends a significant amount of time complaining about his lack of a sex life more time than he spends worrying about the child brides and without any real concern about who might be harmed by this practice I might add , but seems to suggest that this was spiritually good for all of them.

His involvement with Thibodeau also dramatically altered his physical appearance he claimed to like his emaciated frame and led to him abandoning his love of music. Thibodeau insists that he has strong instincts, but the fact that he seems unaware of how deeply he was controlled by Koresh. Despite the fact that Thibodeau and Clive Doyle I have read his memoirs as well have praised Koresh's spirual guidance, both are mum on the specifics of their belief system.

Whether this is because it has some questionable morals that they do not want the public to know or if there just wasn't much of an established system, I honestly don't know. From what I read, Koresh more or less infiltrated the Branch Davidians group that was settled in the area and combined it with elements from both Christianity Biblical preaching and Judaism celebrating passover. Thibodeau consistently claims that the group was persecuted for their religious beliefs, but never outlies what those beliefs are. It seems very non sequitar.

Apart from the acceptance of child brides there was very little objection to any religious beliefs or their communal living situation. The only reason that this book gets two stars instead of one is because despite the infurating justification throughout the book, Thibodeau does present a few valid points about the siege. The government did a horrific job of addressing the situation. Koresh was a monster, but the majority of the victims were innocent and the ATF did not conduct the negotiation with the delicacy needed to help cult victims.

The excessive violence and cruel siege tactics that of the ATF was out of line, especially with so many children on the premise. The media was also a bit hasty to condemn the entire compound without really acknowledging that they too were victims of cruelty. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever get a conclusive account of what actually occurred for a very tragic reason. The people most affected by Koresh's abuse probably died in the fire and were victims of both Koresh AND the mishandled siege.

Nine adults survived the blast and the two written accounts that I know of were written by Koresh's Mighty Men members of Koresh's inner circle. Both accounts seem particularly biased and unwilling to address certain topics and present a very skewed perspective. The most charitable I can be for Thibodeau is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He is despite my intense frustration at him a victim as well. Even as I reread my review and realized how much of my frustration leaked out, I can at least acknowledge that he might have been unaware of some of the abuse or is still so conditioned to defend Koresh that he can't help himself.

Waco was a terrible tragedy thanks to some horrific mishandling of both parties. It's important to remember this horrific event and its victims and learn from it so that it can never happen again. I just wish that the victims had a more reliable speaker. Oct 11, Miles rated it really liked it Shelves: The scenes played out in our living rooms were the stuff of Hollywood, just not possible that the government would use tanks and helicopters and tear gas to attack a religious compound in Mount Carmel Texas - or was it?

Perhaps we'll never know what truly happened, who fired the first shot and who was to blame. The obvious answer is that there was b WACO by David Thibodeau, Leon Whiteson is a fascinating account of the Siege that gripped not only America but the world news for two months in The obvious answer is that there was blame on both sides but was violence called for? Again a question that in WACO, this book, we only get a one sided account from David Thibodeau, one of only nine survivors.

From a chance encounter with David Koresh in a guitar shop to falling under the leader's spell, Thibodeau recounts his life story from beginning to end, we learn about his parents, his relationships and how he fell under Koresh's spell. The book is well written and although the author tries his best at giving a balanced account of what truly happened, we have to take his word for it. There is no Government voice here and I did find that lacking for me to definitely say this is a balanced view. The author does very well and it's a gripping read for sure. There were things I had not known, the intricacies of daily living in Mount Carmel to how the siege ended, the use of weapons, tanks and tear gas.

No quarter was given or truly expected. This is definitely worth reading if you'd like to delve deeper into the branch davidians, their life, community and the charismatic David Koresh, more often lambasted by the media. The book gives a human slant to the terrible events in It took me longer than usual to finish this book as I had a hard time reading and coping with the words on the pages.

I was a teenager when this event happened and I remember being sad that all those people killed themselves, especially sad that there were a large number of children. I no longer hold that view and believe that the Davidians set the fire. Events were definitely more political than I ever realized.

Thi It took me longer than usual to finish this book as I had a hard time reading and coping with the words on the pages. This should have never happened; certainly not on American soil. And certainly even more astonishing that it happened to a Christian group in Texas. This liberal snowflake agrees with Thibodeau on many points.

This book really moved me and got under my skin at the same time. I imagine Koresch was very knowledgeable concerning the Bible and had some kind of spark that held the Davidians together. I hope now that people are more understanding and want to hear from the few who survived at Mount Carmel. With so much division, we need to really hear and listen to the other side. And that he also listed all the Davidians who died. Thank you for giving me this insight Mr. Feb 03, Charlie Serocold rated it liked it.

1. Estys Gold!
2. BBC Radio 4 - A Place Called Home, Series 1, David Blunkett.
3. A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story by David Thibodeau.
4. Accessibility links.
5. A Place Called Waco: A Survivor's Story!
6. How many places are named David?.

Only one person's perspective so potentially a little skewed. It certainly changes how you may have perceived the event: I personally thought that Koresh was a sick sociopath who had brainwashed his cult followers to commit mass suicide. In fact, the book describes how atrociously the ATF and FBI certainly acted, and how the press and the media were quick to assume the worst.

The most interesting part of the book is the first half - where the author describes why and how he joined the Davidians, Only one person's perspective so potentially a little skewed. The most interesting part of the book is the first half - where the author describes why and how he joined the Davidians, and the effect that David Koresh had on his life at the time which was, as you might expect, a little bit lost.

The reveal comes about half way through. He has a way with words and believes he is the Lamb performing the Seven Seals I didn't fully understand this part. He imposed certain community rules - the most controversial being that he did not want adults to have sex with one another, even if they were married. He explained that he was the only one who could have sex, and he'd sleep with other men's wives. Even worse was that he was allowed to have sex with children as young as 11 maybe even younger.

This undoubtedly makes him a kind of monster, and he convinced brainwashed? It's a fairly routine cult-leader practice - abuse of power to satisfy his own, warped, desires - and once this has been called out, the book spends the rest of its time on how badly the situation was handled, citing numerous examples of how the government lied to protect itself against potential claims of its mismanagement of the affair. I vividly remember when Waco was happening. The media and government vilified the Branch Davidians and at the time I thought it was the truth.

This was definitely a sect, not a cult. The people living at Mount Carmel were free to leave if they wished. This is exactly what the Branch Davidians followed. Like the Branch Davidians were vilified by the media in the aftermath of February 28, my husband Nick was vilified in the media after he was murdered in the San Bernardino terrorist attack. One reporter actually said he was a terrorist because of his beliefs.

For anyone interested in religious cults and sects, and anyone who wants to see the other side of the siege at Waco I his is a must read. Jan 06, Janet Lynch rated it it was amazing Shelves: Like Warren Jeffs of the Fundamentalist Mormon Church, he raped numerous children, often with parental permission, because God told him to do it. Male Koresh followers gave up sex and offered him their wives. In the end most of his followers were also willing to give up their lives and those of their children.

The author, David Thibodeau, is one of the few survivors of the raid in Waco, Texas, on April 19, We learn why Thibodeau ended up joining the community led by David Koresh and what went on inside the compound. Some things good, some extremely objectionable. I felt Thibodeau gave a very fair view of both sides. His last chapter in the book addresses things from both sides that might have made a big difference in the outcome of the attack.

My rating of this book has nothing to The author, David Thibodeau, is one of the few survivors of the raid in Waco, Texas, on April 19, My rating of this book has nothing to do with what I think of the Davidian teachings, it is solely on this book. The book gave me a better view of what happened in and outside of Waco during that time period. There was no inclination to reach for my standard mystery novel since I felt this was enlightening and well written.

This is a quote by Rob Cline, a correspondent for the Gazette, January 8, , that sums it up: May 09, Candice rated it did not like it. I have never read a cult survivor book in which the member continues to drink the kool-aid while extolling the virtues of artificial colors between gulps. I gave this book pages worth of my time. This book was a decidedly one-sided view of the Waco story, but I felt as though the author did a good job of acknowledging his bias.

Amazing, actually, that he could be as neutral as he was. When Bill Hicks, stand-up comedian and philosopher, witnessed FBI's and other authorities' siege of the compound of the "Davidians" in Waco, Texas, he decided to go there himself. While there, he saw murderous gas being jolted into a building, along with numerous shots from several different high-calibre weapons, not to forget how tanks drove into the compound itself.

Most of the persons inside of the building had either died from FBI's and other American law-enforcement authorities bullets, f When Bill Hicks, stand-up comedian and philosopher, witnessed FBI's and other authorities' siege of the compound of the "Davidians" in Waco, Texas, he decided to go there himself. Most of the persons inside of the building had either died from FBI's and other American law-enforcement authorities bullets, fires that had started because of the extremely volatile gas, or from having the building collapse on them due to tanks entering the building.

Hicks later added the following to his stand-up routine: I first started reading this book wary of it; I've read a multitude of pop-culture books, studies, monographs, research, and criminological forensics to be very tired of these kinds of tomes; most have a kind of "HE WAS A MONSTER" feeling that surrounds them, mainly as a the culprit s are mainly male and b shock tactics are used in a kind of tabloid fashion. However, I was very glad to note that Thibodeau who is bolstered by the skills of his co-author, Leon Whiteson has produced a book which is not only an easy read, but skips the entire fire-and-brimstone thing that often, sadly, envelops sensationalistic happenings such as the mass-murder of civilians in Waco, Texas.

He starts off with a highly sensoric paragraph on what the end of the Waco siege was about: Day and night booming speakers blast us with wild sounds—blaring sirens, shrieking seagulls, howling coyotes, wailing bagpipes, crying babies, the screams of strangled rabbits, crowing roosters, buzzing dental drills, off-the-hook telephone signals.

The young children and babies in our care, most under eight years old, are terrified. These torments are intended to sap our wills and compel us to surrender to an authority that refuses to accept that we are a valid religious community with deeply held beliefs. Jon Ronson, an English author, noted in his famous book "The Men Who Stare At Goats" that the US government has since long been experimenting with audio as psychological warfare, actually interviewing American generals and others who attest to these experiments becoming life during the Waco siege.

After the shattering introduction of the book, Thibodeau quickly describes his adolescence, always wanting to travel and experience things, not knowing where he stood until he found music. He became an adept drummer, left home for music school where drumming was everything, and subsequently happened to meet David Koresh, who played the guitar. Koresh is described as charismatic, with an intense knowledge of the Bible. As Thibodeau was not Christian, he was still drawn to Koresh who - according to Thibodeau - used a very non-violent way to get Thibodeau into his way of thinking; never preachy, always speaking fluently, they discussed the Bible, which Koresh interpreted via adventism, which bases a belief that armageddon is neigh.

So, Thibodeau moved to Texas, where Koresh had forged a tight-knit community of followers. After a while, Thibodeau started believing Koresh's flavour of God. The crowd, which was around one-third black, was shocked. You could cut the hush with an axe. The people I value are people of light. The New Light revelation was so radical it shocked some of his people and shook their faith. Simply put, it mandated celibacy for everyone except David.

Single men in the community had to give up sex. Married men, such as Steve Schneider and Livingston Fagan, had to separate from their wives and cease making love altogether. Sex was a distraction, David told his people, an untamed power seducing the spirit away from its focus. Only David was given the right to procreate with any of the women, married or single, to generate the inner circle of children who would rule the coming kingdom to be established in Israel.

The children David would have with these women, married and single, ranging in ages from fourteen to forty, would represent the most sacred core of the community. I feel that the best and worst of Thibodeau's writings lie in how he portrays Koresh; at one point, he is obviously sucker-punched into the whole sect mentality, not questioning the totalitarian leader's claim to be "the Lamb from Revelation" which he actually made while classifying homosexual persons as "sinful"; also, women cooked, men worked on the building.

Thibodeau writes of this "jarring" him, and at the same time, anybody who has ever been subjected to and fallen for peer pressure can relate to bowing down to ideas of others even though they may feel to be utterly wrong. Whether or not Koresh raped children, even though that may not be the case according to Texan law, having sex with year-old girls is pedophilia in my eyes.

A Place Called Waco

And yes, Koresh obviously abused his place of power much like Charles Manson, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump have, in their autocratic and totalitarian ways. According to Thibodaeu, Koresh and others at the top of his gang did not force people to stay at their compound. Children were apparently well looked after, people were not worked to the bone, and it seems as though Koresh was mostly an OK person apart from raping children and believing he was "the Lamb". Apart from that, just.

Still, to me, the most interesting thing about this book apart from Thibodeau's personal experiences with being drawn into Koresh's being and collection of humans, is how both the FBI and the American justice system utterly perverted everything that occurred during the siege, not to mention the judicial process that followed. To begin with, the ATF wanted to attack the compond. The basis for this deserves a full quotation: A corrupt document on its face, the affidavit served as the original act that brought about the obliteration of our community. We only got to see the sealed warrant during the siege, on March 19, weeks after the ATF attack.

A Place Called Waco : David Thibodeau :

For the public, the warrant remained sealed until after the fire, too late for the media to examine it and question its validity. The most blatant lie in the ATF affidavit was the drug charge. The drug charge dated back to George Roden, who had allowed speed dealers to operate in Mount Carmel during the mids. She thought it was unnecessary.

David Blunkett

Congressional hearings and other law business has clearly shown how FBI top brass lied about vital points, and evidence - for example the bullet-struck right-hand side of the compound door - has vanished from the trace of the Earth, by the way, evidence which only did the law enforcement agencies disservice. Everyone who was allowed to see the mass-murder that was about to happen could see the obvious signs on the wall: Though Jeannine repeatedly denied this, Oprah kept pushing.

It's interesting to know that the FBI called their attack plan "Jericho". It included a process to drive tear gas into the compound over 48 hours. In January the United States and other countries had signed the Chemical Weapons Convention banning the use of CS gas in warfare; apparently there is no prohibition on its use against American citizens. A hazardous overdose could be created by the release of… even one full-sized grenade in a closed room. Thibodeau marshals an array of evidence, some of it never previously revealed, and proves conclusively that it was our own government that caused the Waco tragedyincluding the fires.

The result is a memoir that reads like a thrillereach page taking us closer to the eventual inferno. The Best Books of Check out the top books of the year on our page Best Books of Product details Format Hardback pages Dimensions Looking for beautiful books? Visit our Beautiful Books page and find lovely books for kids, photography lovers and more. Table of contents Prologue: The Double Helix show more. Book ratings by Goodreads. Goodreads is the world's largest site for readers with over 50 million reviews. We're featuring millions of their reader ratings on our book pages to help you find your new favourite book.

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