Zwei Fragen an die Rede des Alkibiades in Platons Symposion (German Edition)

Socrates touches upon this issue in the next conversation, which discusses the value of friends: However, this discussion does not reflect a concern about reciprocity either: Finally, the premise of helping friends and harming enemies does not have a place in Plato, whereas it is taken for granted in Xenophon Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2. Socrates P makes an ironical comment on it: On the contrary, Socrates X takes this maxim seriously and exploits it in his theorization about the ideal friendship Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2.

For instance, both Socrateses approach friendship from the perspective of morality good friend vs. But in Xenophon this possibility is raised by Critobulus when he remarks that vicious rhetors may have virtuous orators as friends in order to be then refuted on the grounds of utility: On the contrary, in Plato this idea is rejected altogether Plato Lysis d8. More radically, the very concept of a wicked friend, which is taken for granted in Xenophon Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2.

But it is interesting that they both then challenge this idea or offer different qualifications: Socrates X , on the other hand, comments on the fact that even moral people often enter into quarrels and staseis with each another Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2. Again, the idea of a virtuous person hating other people is inconceivable in Plato. Socrates X claims that friendship is natural because of the need men have for each other. Socrates X gives a rather materialistic answer to this question by comparing the good friend with the fruit of a tree Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2.

Obviously friendship belonged to the agenda of topics that Socrates discussed with his fellow-citizens. It seems also probable that Socrates contributed to the debate about friendship. In fact, the concept underwent a transformation from the fifth to the fourth century BCE: Socrates is probably to be credited with directing the discussion of friendship towards moral preoccupations and with linking it to virtue.

Concerning the thorny issue of the relationship between Plato and Xenophon, the hypothesis of mutual responses in a context of rivalry, though intriguing, cannot be verified. On the contrary, this possibility is rather challenged by the specific adaptation that each author offers to the topic of friendship.

The interpretations to which it has given rise can be schematically categorized as follows: Finally, attempts to discover a specific philosophical aim in the dialog e. I will go one step further here and argue that he deliberately created a false aporia i. The Lysis contains many refutations of this sort which rely on misleading shifts or changes of the focus of the conversation. Another illustrative example can be found in the first discussion between Socrates and Lysis. In this discussion Socrates ventures and then refutes two consecutive ideas: He elaborates on the first sequence similars as friends on moral terms: However, when he analyzes the idea of dissimilars as friends, he operates on two levels: The refutation of this idea is unsuccessful, because it relies on a rather arbitrary intrusion of the moral aspect in the conversation.

Moreover, the mixing of the two spheres social and moral spoils any effort to reach a unifying conclusion about friendship, since the friendship between the patient and the doctor cannot be comparable with the friendship between the just and the unjust. This concept is introduced by Socrates as a way out of the impasse that the focus on the good and bad had created.

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At first sight it is presented as concerning neutral things. Socrates initially maintains that the human body is neither good nor bad and loves medicine because of illness, which is bad Plato Lysis b. But then it is applied to human beings as well: Several issues thus remain open: Is it applied to everything and everybody?

It is beyond doubt that this concept is inadequately theorized. These false refutations aim at deepening the reflection on the topic of friendship, but they also create the impression that the aporia is more artificial than genuine. So, the artificiality of the aporia may be also viewed as a more rigorous means of initiating the two young men into the methods of the elenchus. Vincent Azoulay analyzes asymmetrical friendships between leaders and followers, leaders and allies which often mask relationships of dependence; he views Xenophon as a forerunner of Hellenistic unequal friendships.

How are we to interpret these traits? It is also inspired by political realities. More radically, Xenophon projects these political realities into his ideas about individual friendship. This projection accounts for the peculiar traits of the treatment of philia that we find in the Conversations of Socrates. The discussion of friendship is constantly interwoven with political issues: The political discourse is so predominant, that the reader is tempted to wonder whether Xenophon is interested in individuals at all. The emphasis on agency individual x seeking for a friend is a projection of a political image into the individual sphere: Xenophon views friends as allies who should be preserved.

He also includes war and enemies in his discussion of friendship, themes which clearly point to the political sphere:.

It is thus not coincidental that the methods that a friend should use to acquire friends are the same as the methods that Cyrus and Agesilaus use concerning their subjects and allies: The peculiarity of this representation becomes more evident if it is compared with Plato: Leaders of fifth-century Athens, like Pericles, were preoccupied with this topic Thucydides 2. This blending is often interpreted as an indication that he values both sets of ideas equally; yet in reality the political is privileged in his thought.

It is important that poleis are often used as models for individuals rather than vice versa. A characteristic example of this tendency can be found in the first book of the Conversations of Socrates , in which the surprising idea occurs that the cities and nations should be considered as models of piety for men, because they are the most ancient and wise! In this way, he amplifies morality by also attributing it to cities: Socrates comments on the fact that Pericles and Themistocles acquired the benevolence of their cities, and then proceeds to use the relationship of Athens with the two leaders as models for interpersonal relationships:.

How did he make the city love him? In fact, Socrates seems to contrast two ways of acquiring benevolence: The connection of Pericles with praise alludes to the Thucydidean funeral oration, the praise of democracy par excellence ; by having Socrates contrasting praise with benefaction, Xenophon subtly criticizes the democratic constitution.

Xenophon adapts this idea, by directing the love from the city to the leaders and by subsequently projecting this love into interpersonal relationships: First, because Socrates shifts the focus of the conversation: So, the idealized friendship presented by Socrates is socially conditioned and reserved to noble men. Second, the idea of acquiring moderate possessions without toil is peculiar for an author like Xenophon, who continuously valorizes toil. Again it seems that the root of this idea is political discourse about Athens. The Athenians of the fifth century BCE are generally presented in historical and political contexts as restless and always willing to acquire more.

And they enjoy very little of what they have, because they continually acquire more. Xenophon is not an advocate of imperialism and the idea of avoiding the conquest of everything is present in his other works as well, again in contexts relating to empires Xenophon Cyropaedia 1. In the Conversations of Socrates it is transferred to individuals.

Xenophon probably means that, concerning individuals, noble men who are moreover ideal friends do not display greediness. But he expresses this idea in a markedly politicized way. Contrary to Plato, who exhibits an independent interest in morality and individual virtue, Xenophon subjects individual morality to his political interests and priorities.

We can reasonably assume that these topics were discussed by the historical Socrates.

Meaning of "Alkibiades" in the German dictionary

On the other hand, both authors also make distinctive adaptations according to their interests: One could wonder whether the divergences even the incompatibility that we observe between the two treatments ultimately undermine the value of the comparison. I believe that this is not the case. The crucial unifying element between the two authors is that they both aim to promote a specific image of Socrates.

Plato, on the contrary, is subtler: Furthermore, although Socrates begins his conversation about philia , by considering the two young men as models, he progressively proves himself to be a truly attractive friend. The end of the dialog is also revealing: These elements suggest that the background of the Lysis is the charge against Socrates concerning the corruption of the youth. It thus becomes clear that the two authors are responding to the same event the condemnation of Socrates.

ALKIBIADES - Definition and synonyms of Alkibiades in the German dictionary

The issue which is raised then is to what extent their responses are successful. It is noteworthy that he establishes a connection between two charges against Socrates: Nevertheless, he focuses on the theme of usefulness and does not really address the issue of corruption. The detail devoted to the topic of usefulness of friends suggests that, for Xenophon, the concept of usefulness is an overarching theme which suffices to refute every charge: For instance, when Socrates discusses with Critobulus the topic of the value of friends Xenophon Conversations of Socrates 2. Of course, usefulness is conceived on moral grounds, but the lack of reciprocity implied in the idea that somebody chooses his friends on the grounds of usefulness even moral usefulness is somewhat disturbing.

Finally, the intrusion of Xenophontic themes into the Socratic conversations of the Conversations of Socrates also contributes little to the apology: In fact the Lysis is characterized by a remarkable correspondence between narrative setting and theoretical analysis: In this way the practical aporia concerning the acquisition of friends matches the theoretical one. However, both aporiae are fake. The theoretical aporia of the dialog is not genuine either: If we accept that irony in the sense of false aporia is the unifying element between the two levels of the dialog the plot and the theory , a possible solution to the enigma of the Lysis emerges: However, Xenophon fails to achieve what he openly announces, that is to offer a compelling defence of Socrates.

Plato, on the contrary, succeeds in accomplishing what he does not explicitly state, that is offering a subtle apology for Socrates: He prefers instead, through Socratic irony and self-undermining, to leave us wondering about whether Socrates could really be so provocative and subversive.

De la charis au charisme. Xenophon Conversations of Socrates. Translated and annotated by A. Bonnette with an introduction by C. Zurich and New York. How Plato and Xenophon Created our Socrates. Socrates and his Girlfriends. The Framing of Socrates. Ethical Principles and Historical Enquiry.

Translation of «Alkibiades» into 25 languages

Historical and Contemporary Philosophical Perspectives ed. Xenophon on Aristocratic Style. Socrates on Friendship and Community. Ideal Leaders or Ideal Losers? Oligarchic Perceptions of Democracy in Xenophon. Van Berkel Tazuko, A. Socrates and the Value of Friendship. I would like to thank the senior fellows especially Angelos Chaniotis and Mark Schiefsky and the audience of the Symposium for useful comments. I am also grateful to Sarah Brown Ferrario for stylistic suggestions and other pertinent observations, which helped me further clarify my thesis. Finally, I thank Ross Jaffe, for the copy-editing of my paper.

Unless otherwise stated, translations in this paper are mine.

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The same impression is conveyed by the sub-title of Nichols Socrates on Friendship and Community. Stickler does not mention Xenophon either. Bordt takes Xenophon into account, although without undertaking a systematic comparison with Plato. For the underestimation of Xenophon by Platonists, see also Morrison The question, however, of whether this chapter depends on or responds to the other is rather outdated. Glidden analyzes the terminology of philos in the Lysis from a linguistic and philosophical perspective. We also share information about the use of the site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.

Meaning of "Alkibiades" in the German dictionary. Synonyms and antonyms of Alkibiades in the German dictionary of synonyms. Examples of use in the German literature, quotes and news about Alkibiades. Wer da gebietet, dass Xanthippe begehrenswerter sei als Alkibiades , ist ein Schwein, das immer nur an den Geschlechtsunterschied denkt. Hermann in den Jahrb. On the one hand works from the 4th century BC were used as sources for Alkibiades II Plato, Antisthenes , on the other hand it attacks contemporary philosophical rivals: Einfuhrung in die Alte Geschichte.

Die folgende Hausarbeit beschaftigt sich mit der Bedeutung der Symposium und Phaidros, Sprache: Gegenstand dieser Arbeit ist die Alkibiades Die Lebensbeschreibung des Alkibiades wird von Nepos durch aukto- riale Bemerkungen gegliedert.