Here We Go Again?? A Spiritual Fantasy

The only content we will consider removing is spam, slanderous attacks on other members, or extremely offensive content eg. We will not remove any content for bad language alone, or for being critical of a book. Hannah 57 books 13 friends. Lynn books 7 friends. Iin books 1 friend. William 87 books friends. Randall 13 books 0 friends. Robyn books 14 friends. Elaina 5 books 0 friends.

Our intention is the reality behind our actions

Aug 02, Oct 16, There are other books on this list that I would argue are not Christian Fantasy, but His Dark Materials takes the cake. Phillip Pullman flat out hates Christians and everything our faith stands for. You can read his books and find things for Christians to discuss, no doubt. But that can be said of any book. I also don't think Tolkien's works should be on this list. Tolkien was a Christian and you might be able to find Christian symbolism in his books, but I don't think that merits it being added to these lists. He was a fantastic and influential fantasy author, but not a Christian author per say.

Tolkien thought of his work as "applicable" he found Christian symbolism in his works, but knew others could read them without seeing any As for Pullman, this kind of thing happens on all the public lists. It's true Pullman's works are actually "anti-Christian". He even writes the children "killing" his deity and casts his view of a "church" as the villain.

But, it's a public list and getting a book off the list is in the hands of the librarian. Just be aware of what you're looking at as you peruse the list. The other lists end the same, the Urban Fantasy list gets Epic fantasy posted on it and so on. Just the way it is. Oct 17, Mike the Paladin wrote: As for Pullman, this kind of thing happens on all the At least I can add about 60 books that no one else apparently knows about to the list.

Hope you have some good ones I've missed. I hope no one protests. It's quite clearly not Christian fantasy. Dec 12, Harry Potter isn't really Christian fantasy. It makes clear distinctions between good and evil, depicts the villain's hunt for immortality as wrong, and emphasizes the fact that love conquers all. I agree the Potter books aren't Christian fantasy, but it is possible to find Christian themes if you look.

Dec 13, It makes clear distinctions between good and evil, depicts the villain's hunt for immor I'd even put Lord of the Rings in that category. I don't think that just because Christians can find good themes to discuss in a book then that means that those books belong on a Christian Fantasy list like this one. I've been browsing these lists to find more Christian Fantasies that I can enjoy, not secular works that I can read and discuss. I can find those anywhere. Now looking at the list, I see secular books above a lot of my favorite Christian Fantasies.

Not to say that secular fantasies are evil or anything I'm not that type of Christian! Am I really the only one here looking for Christian Fantasies with clear Christian themes, allegories, and symbolism? No, like you I've come here looking for fantasies that are "clearly" Christian and found that probably the majority aren't really what I'd call Christian fantasy. There are a few that are clearly non-Christian, but the lists are open, so It's like that on most of these lists. There's an Urban Fantasy list and it hadn't been in existence long before it was full of Epic fantasy, high fantasy, sword and sorcery etc.

I think either some don't read the actual headings very well, or maybe just like putting on books that don't belong. We just have to sift through them. There are a few that are clearly n But then I come here and find people talking about why they added the books, and I think it's a rather weak reason. I've seen loads of high fantasy books on the urban fantasy lists and vise-versa. Usually those voters are not in the comments trying to justify why they added the book.

At least, I haven't seen any recently. I think that Christians can find Christian truths in loads of books that aren't necessarily Christian. But I'm not looking for those books I can find them anywhere. I know I'm going to have to sift through them when I'm looking through these lists, but I'd like to add my own two cents when I see voters adding books that I don't think belong on the lists.

He criticized Lewis because he thought the Christian basis in Narnia was "too obvious". You probably know about the "Inklings" etc. Have you read Pilgrims Progress in Today's English? I can't think of anything a lot like Narnia. Lawhead's Dragon King Trilogy is fairly obvious Christian fantasy.

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within - Wikiquote

It's been a long time since I read it. Some of Lawhead's other fantasies also have a fairly overt Christian basis. Like you I'm always looking for good Christian Fantasy. I didn't care a lot for the Left Behind series but I do like the BeauSeigneur, "Christ Clone" trilogy though the title almost put me off. The title refers to an attempt to clone from the "material" on the Shroud or Turin. In His Image , Birth of an Age: I wouldn't read them for theology LOL but they aren't irreverent.

I know all about the Inklings. But I don't really think it should be categorized as Christian. I'm not really bothered by it being on this list because I see Tolkien's works on loads of Christian Fantasy lists all the time I've kinda resigned to it. I have read Pilgrim's Progress! Now if Tolkien thought that the allegory in Narnia was obvious I wonder what he thought of that classic. I enjoyed Pilgrim's Progress well enough, but I did think it was a bit more preachy and in-your-face then I like to read about.

I'd already put the Dragon King trilogy on my to-read list. My mental to-read list I think. I'm not too good at keeping up with the one on here.

• A WINTERS TWILIGHT- REVISITED.
• Leadership Theories - Gandhi as leader: The application of leadership skills in organizations on a great leader of our time according to Gary A. Yukl!
• Vintage Knit Gloves and Mittens: 25 Patterns for Timeless Fashions;
• Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within.
• How Imagination and Fantasy Help our Spiritual Growth | Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life?
• Where Brave Men Fall: The Battle of Dieppe and the Espionage War Against Hitler, 1939-1942.

I don't much care for apocalyptic fiction like Left Behind. I'm less into Science Fiction, but I will read it on occasion. Sounds like the Christ Clone trilogy is Science Fiction The idea does kind of creep me out, but if you recommend it then I might give it a try. Well Allison, it is another take on the book of Revelation. I was saying that I really didn't care for the Left Behind series I won't criticize or go into why here, suffice it to say I stopped about 3 or 4 books in.

• Fibrinolytic Bacterial Enzymes with Thrombolytic Activity (SpringerBriefs in Microbiology).
• When believers prefer spiritual fantasy to biblical truth!
• Architecture et écologie (Eyrolles Architecture) (French Edition).
• Time On My Hands?

I was saying that the BeauSeigneur trilogy was superior. If you don't care for the subject matter in general, it may not appeal to you. Maybe read the first from the library and see if you want to go on? We all have individual taste. Dec 31, I have read a few that I've liked well enough, but I feel that it's an overdone part of Christian Fiction and not really something that I like to read about anyway. I saw the Christ Clone trilogy books at Half Price Books the other day and I thought about buying it, but decided I'd rather see if the library has it.

I found a fair number of what looked like fantasy reads in the Christian Fiction section I love finding fantasy books I haven't heard of before in that section! I have about 30 books on my to-read shelf at home, so it might be awhile before I take an actual trip to the library. I read that many years ago and while I don't remember it in detail I remember I liked it.

I'll also keep watching for book titles I haven't run on!

• Recommended.
• How to Vote?
• Kurzlehrbuch Pathologie (German Edition)!
• Best Christian Fantasy books ( books)?

Feb 04, Do you think anyone would scream horribly if I took them off? The "Remove Books" page promises serious repercussions if I delete books without cause. I can't answer the question Allison Rowling considers her books "Christian Fantasy" but on the other hand I suppose you can get a sort Christian lesson from them if you look for it. And I admit you do have to look for it.

I find some people tend to use very The rest of us I suppose just need to be discerning. A "sort-of" Christian lesson. But like I said before, if the only criteria for a book being Christian Fantasy is some "sort-of" Christian lesson to discuss I added books like "The Charlatan's Boy" and "On the Edge of the Dark Sea of Darkness" because even though I couldn't discern a stronger Christian message then I find in most mainstream fiction, both were fantasies published by a Christian press In this case, Waterbrook.

Which I think, should there be doubt as to whether or not the symbolism is actually there, could be the deciding factor. I feel like people are a bit vague when they add books to these lists. They want to stretch the definition in order to put their favorites up. For now I'll leave Harry Potter be and see if anybody comes back to defend their position.

That's what I meant. I agree with you in that Harry Potter was never meant to be overtly Christian Fantasy. And you've pretty much put your finger on what you're going to be up against. Some posters will simply see "fantasy" and stick their favorite book on the list. I'm just thankful that Twilight hasn't shown up here. May 09, I deleted the Harry Potter books.

Best Christian Fantasy books

If anyone disagrees with my choice, I'd still love to hear a reason that qualifies Harry Potter as Christian. It's mainstream fantasy fiction, and you'd have to stretch the definition of "Christian Fantasy" in order for it to qualify.

Don't just vote for your favorite books. Vote for books that fall under the definition of the list. I have to agree. You can find some "Christian lessons and tenets" in the book. Feb 28, Mar 05, You can find Christian values in an episode of Dr Phil. Harry Potter is one of the most blatantly non-Christian things on this list - the three young heroes have to compromise quite a bit to get to where they are going, and all that teenage snogging is just way overboard. Mar 07, Harry Potter is one of the most blatantly non-Christian things on this list - the three young heroes have to comprom Didn't I delete them?

Why are they back? And what's with all the Wolf books? There, whatever we intend, we do. That is precisely why coveting and lust are condemned in the Bible as evil. They are condemned because they are an intention to act upon the evil things we desire. Coveting and lust are not mere fantasy. They are a burning desire to do the evil things that we desire in our heart. And if that is what we do, then even our illicit and wrong imaginations and fantasies have done their job. That job is to show us what is truly inside us, and give us the opportunity to progressively reject and root out those parts of ourselves without the damage and destruction that would result from actually saying and doing them.

This, in a nutshell, is why God has created us with the ability to imagine and fantasize about all sorts of things, both good and bad. Lee Woofenden is an ordained minister, writer, editor, translator, and teacher. He enjoys taking spiritual insights from the Bible and the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg and putting them into plain English as guides for everyday life. This is very interesting because I have experienced it myself. As a kid I used to have power and domination fantasies, but I was afraid to act on those because somehow I knew it to be very wrong, so they remained in my head.

That is dumb and wholly unnecessary. Thanks for stopping by, and for telling your story. And thanks for your kind words. And that is what causes us to spend eternity in hell rather than in heaven. Is 70 years or so really enough time for a human to determine his eternal destiny? What if a person was given infinite time to change and embrace the good, seeing its wisdom and how the good gives the greatest and lasting human satisfaction and happiness?

Is there any justification for the average number of years allotted to a person as a measure of character? Some species of insects go through their entire life cycle in a few hours or days. Sure, God could have stretched it out to millions of years. But what more would that really have gained us? We humans go through our natural life cycle in six, eight, or ten decades. And during that time we go through the various changes from infancy to childhood to adolescence to young adulthood to middle age to our elder years. Through those changes, and in those decades, we have plenty of time to gain knowledge and experience, evaluate ourselves and our situation in the larger scheme of things, and make choices about what sort of person we want to be.

Personally, I would not want it to be stretched out to millions of years. It would only prolong the process unnecessarily without giving any particular advantage in the decision-making process. God could have designed the time frame on any scale. The one God chose seems appropriate to our nature as human beings. What kind of test is this? I think anyone who makes it through even a few years in this world with their sanity intact deserves everlasting bliss.

Yes, there is much pain, suffering, and sin in this world. But there is also much joy, camaraderie, and love in the world. Life can be a struggle. But there is also great beauty, if we look for it. And hell is not a punishment. Rather, it is the best God can do for those who get their pleasure out of evil instead of out of good.

And choosing evil over good does inevitably bring pain. But God allows hell not to punish these people, but so that they can get at least some of the kind of pleasure they enjoy, even if it is inevitably laced with pain. For more on this, see: Is There Really a Hell? What is it Like? Nobody deserves any pain or suffering after experiencing life on earth. If anything they deserve medals for making it through this life with their sanity intact. People deserve eternal bliss for the suffering in this world. Instead he gives them eternal existence in hell.

Why else is there so much of it? Suffering is a sweet savor unto the Lord. God takes no pleasure in our suffering. Nor does God give anyone an eternal existence in hell. People give that to themselves. If it were up to God, all of us would spend eternity in heaven. God sends no one to hell. I dunno there, Lee. The painful part of hell we can probably agree is enjoyed by no one except maybe for Marquis de Sade type sadists.

And they continue to choose that state of being after they die. Rather, it means that of the available choices, that particular one is their preference. More on this in response to your second related comment. This is something God permits or tolerates for the sake of those evil spirits, not something God enjoys. It was not something Swedenborg planned to publish, though he did draw on the material in it for his published works. And the earlier parts of Spiritual Experiences were written while he was still getting his bearings in the spiritual world, and did not fully grasp and understand what he was seeing.

Spiritual Experiences has to be read with these things in mind, and with some caution about drawing hard-and-fast conclusions based on what is written there. It just needs to be read in light of his later, published works, where Swedenborg writes with more experience under his belt, and a better understanding of what it all means.

Now about that particular description in Spiritual Experiences , though angels are mentioned in the previous section, they are not mentioned in connection with the punishment itself; and the following section makes it pretty clear that it is spirits, not angels, who are doing the monitoring and punishing.

Or it could mean evil spirits. In his later works he usually but not always identifies punishing spirits as evil spirits. He does, however, sometimes mention good but strict spirits who punish wrongdoers in the world of spirits. The punishers in Spiritual Experiences could have been this sort of spirits, also. Angels are capable of inflicting pain upon evil spirits who manage to venture up into heaven for less than noble purposes. But it is more to protect themselves and scare the evil spirits away than it is for punishment.

Angels have no desire to punish or inflict pain on anyone. And in general, the pain is the result of the heavenly aura of love and truth that surrounds angels hitting and grating against the hellish aura of hatred and falsity that surrounds evil spirits, and inflicting pain due to the extreme dissonance of the collision of opposites. This is how angels protect themselves from the evil intentions and actions of evil spirits.

In hell itself, punishments are not meted out by angels, but rather by other evil spirits in hell, who enjoy inflicting pain on their fellow evil spirits, and are always looking for an opportunity to do so. They get that opportunity when someone does something evil, which opens them up to retribution and punishment. And since evil spirits in hell love doing evil, and are always doing it whenever they can, there are indeed many punishments in hell.

So yes, there are punishments in hell. And even though criminals may not think of themselves as choosing to be in prison, when they get out of prison, re-commit the same crimes, and land themselves back in prison, what would you call it? In effect, they are choosing the punishment by choosing the crime. There is no reality in which people could commit all sorts of evil actions with no consequences.

When we choose the evil, we are by the very same choice also choosing the consequences of that evil. They just ignore the warnings, and go ahead anyway, even though they know very well that smoking is likely to lead to a long and painful death. The reality is that you cannot do damaging and destructive things without causing damage and destruction.

Flag this list

Evil is evil precisely because it is damaging and destructive. So when we choose evil, we are choosing also the consequences of evil, which is pain, suffering, punishment, and misery. These consequences may come right away, or they may many years later. But they will come. And we know it—even if may try to fool ourselves and deny it. No criminal is stupid enough not to realize that if he or she gets caught, there will be very unpleasant consequences such as prison, serious physical injury, or death.

Criminals make their choices knowing the risks. And the reality is, if you continue to act in an evil and criminal way, sooner or later those risks are going to become a reality. So we can cry for the evil spirits in hell if we want to. But nobody goes to hell without having chosen that life. Unlike in the material world with its often faulty and corrupt governments and judicial systems, there are no miscarriages of justice in the spiritual world.

No one goes to hell through a divine clerical error. The only people who go to hell are those who knowingly and intentionally choose an evil life, being well aware of the implications and consequences of their choices, and having the ability to make a better choice if they wished. And the fact of the matter is that although there are some people who veer into a destructive and criminal life due to a completely screwed-up childhood, there are others who could very well have done something else, but who chose a life of crime because they liked that idea better than working for an honest living.

There are some criminals who truly enjoy their life of crime, not due to some mental illness or shockingly bad childhood, but because. And once they have made those choices and hardened themselves into a life in which they enjoy gaining pleasure through inflicting pain and loss on others, there is no turning back. They laugh and sneer at good-hearted spirits and angels who try to remonstrate with them. And then, if they could, they would beat them to a bloody pulp and rob them blind.

The punishments in hell are simply an unavoidable consequence of the evil choices and actions of the people who live there. And those punishments are not inflicted upon them by angels, still less by God, but by their fellow evil spirits. But in order to get out, they would have to make a different choice.